Every now and then on the Desert Hipster Web site a reader will get out of line and criticizes them:

As at all times, he was roundly scolded and mocked for his heterodoxy, and that was that. After all totally different tubing produces totally different trip high quality, and naturally the reviewers over on the Desert Hipster Web site have the finely-tuned scranuses which can be capable of discern it. Anybody who feels in another way is a bitter curmudgeon, case closed, the top.
I, nevertheless, suppose they’re each unsuitable, or a minimum of not fully proper. Within the case of the commenter, I do know he’s unsuitable for 2 causes. This:

And this:

Definitely the commenter’s proper in that you simply’re not going to really feel any vertical flex sitting on high of a triangle. Nevertheless, the Teledyne Titan (made earlier than they actually found out how you can construct bikes correctly out of titanium) flexed clearly and disconcertingly in just about each different path. Little doubt lots of this needed to do with the fork, additionally titanium, which you might see deflecting like somebody whose identify has been discovered within the Epstein flight logs, however judging from the chain rub the body flexed lots too. Some bikes you suppose possibly you are feeling some flex or some dampening taking place, however you’re probably not even certain in case you’re feeling it, or in that case the place it’s coming from:

However with the Teledyne Titan there was little doubt, and it felt virtually comically sproingy.
As for the Y-Foil, it completely flexes vertically and dampens vibration. Granted, that’s not precisely a good instance, because it’s not a standard diamond body. Nonetheless, that bike’s 27 years previous, so it’s not precisely loopy to suppose that within the ensuing years they’ve found out how you can make UCI-compliant crabon frames which can be flexy in a single path and never the opposite. Is it significant or discernible while you’re simply sitting on the bike and rolling alongside a flat floor? In all probability not. And so they nonetheless arrive at it by trickery, like elastomers and notches below the seatpost and stuff. However while you think about all the varied permutations and undulations of driving a racing bicycle (sprinting, climbing, diving into turns at velocity, rocking the bike forwards and backwards), little doubt the fabric and the way it’s utilized is likely one of the issues that informs the way in which the bike goes to really feel.
So based mostly on the above, I’d agree the commenter is inaccurate. BUT. These are excessive examples. No person within the enterprise of promoting bikes at this time–whether or not it’s Large, or some non-binary custom-builder-of-the-moment in Portland–goes to construct a motorcycle that behaves like that Teledyne. Fairly, they’re all going to fall inside a sure vary of what’s adequately sturdy and adequately mild. So the query then turns into whether or not you cannot solely discern the particular trip high quality of the tubing, because the Desert Hipster Web site reviewer claims (the remark on the high of this submit was in response to a assessment of a sure Ritchey body), but in addition accomplish that by the handlebars and the saddle and the tires and all that different stuff–in an age by which no influencer can be caught useless on tires narrower than 35mm, no much less.
And I’m going to go forward and say you can’t. (Or a minimum of that the diploma to which you’ll might be enormously exaggerated.)
After all, in an effort to actually know for certain you’d want do to a blind check with a number of bikes which can be created from totally different tubing however are in any other case similar–which, as most individuals know, somebody did:

And right here was the end result:

And that was on tires no wider than your thumb that have been in all probability inflated to 120psi.
Given this, is it humanly doable to match the tubing on this bike…

…and this bike?

They sound totally different once I flick them with my fingernail. Folks on the Web will say stuff like “Rivendell’s frames are [x] and Waterford’s frames are [y].” However is one actually smoother or is the opposite stiffer? Are you freaking kidding me? The stuff you really feel instantly are the the tires (by far essentially the most instant), and the variations between the saddles, and the way in which the controls really feel in your fingers:

And sure, there’s definitely a distinction in stifness between totally different handlebars and stems:

And naturally these two bikes are totally different sufficient it phrases of geometry and match that they trip in another way:

Do they trip shockingly, mind-blowingly in another way? They don’t. I feel if most of us with a number of bikes are being trustworthy, once we swap from one bike to a different, the variations are extraordinarily pronounced for about 5 minutes, then we simply get used to it and overlook all about it:

However they’re totally different–most noticeably in match, tire clearance, wheelbase, and aesthetic end. And by extension, they’re totally different when it comes to how one can set them up, which is what’s most vital. However of all of the variations I can discern, it might be an actual stretch to attribute any of them to the tubing.
Identical goes for this bike…

And this bike:

I’m fairly certain they’re each created from totally different units of Columbus tubing, and I’m completely certain that I can’t inform the distinction in trip high quality between these two units of tubing. I can inform the 2 bikes are sized in another way and are geared in another way, however by far essentially the most dramatic transformation in trip high quality occurred once I went from the unique tires on the Cervino to 30mm high-end Vittoria tubulars.
So certain, in excessive instances–reminiscent of with the Teledyne–you’re undoubtedly feeling the body materials. Damon Rinard mentioned that whereas it might or might not be doable for a body to be too stiff, it may definitely be too flexy:
Is it doable for a body to be too versatile? I consider it’s. Underneath a tough effort by the rider, a versatile body truly permits the wheels to come back out of aircraft with respect to one another. You may see it in any dash if you will get a view from the entrance or behind. All frames do that to some extent, however giant or highly effective riders might favor a stiffer body to attenuate this impact.
And a too-flexible body may be exhausting to deal with in some driving conditions. For example, on high-speed descents and in corners, an excessively versatile body can weave round sufficient to turn out to be a handful to maintain below management. In different phrases, versatile frames may be scary! I as soon as learn a quote attributed to Andy Hampsten to the impact that the one factor scarier than descending on a TVT body was climbing with out one! A really versatile body may be disconcerting sufficient to trigger a rider to again off in some conditions the place a stiffer body would permit him to maintain up velocity.
By that logic, sure, I’m additionally ready to simply accept it’s doable to strike a steadiness between flexy and too flexy, and even that one thing particular occurs when a body (whether or not by chance or as a result of it’s been constructed only for you) is “good.” Nevertheless it’s exhausting to reconcile this with my expertise of most bikes feeling “good” as soon as I’ve taken the time to set them up the way in which I need them, and with the instant modifications that occur once I swap sure elements, particularly tires–and the broader the tire will get, the tougher it’s to consider you’re feeling a lot if something from the body. (A lot much less the insane assertion that sq. taper spindles and titanium cranks cut back ankle fatigue and are conducive to “all-day driving consolation,” a declare made by the identical web site.) Is there a distinction between strolling on a wood ground and a concrete one? Sure. Is the distinction much less noticeable in a pair of ugly-ass Hokas? Sure. Is it unimaginable to note while you’re in mattress? Additionally sure–although in case you’re humping particularly vigorously I wouldn’t rule it out fully. And I believe it’s the identical factor with body tubing.
Most significantly, it’s extremely foolhardy to rule out the psychological results bikes have on bike dorks. We’re like drunk bros at a strip membership round these items, and are usually in no psychological situation to objectively consider their attributes, least of all of the trip high quality of the tubing. I’ve been driving the Milwaukee for 10 years now, and aside from tire modifications, essentially the most dramatic change I skilled in trip high quality was when it went from black…

…to purple (or technically it’s copper):

I rode the factor for weeks straight after it got here again with its new end and I couldn’t consider it was the identical bike. Nevertheless it was very a lot the identical bike, and I didn’t even change the elements. (Sure, the elements are totally different within the two images, however they have been the identical earlier than and after the paint.)
I also have a secret bike none of you already know about. (A woman has to have some secrets and techniques.) It’s made by somebody who’s Variety Of A Massive Deal:

Is it every little thing it’s cracked as much as be? Effectively…sure, sure it’s. Nevertheless it’s additionally unimaginable to overlook what you’re driving while you’re driving it, and to belief your emotions about it. It’s kind of like hanging out with a star. Am I experiencing the individual? Or am I experiencing my concept of the individual? Am I having enjoyable? Or is what I’m actually having fun with the concept somebody may see me with this individual?
It’s in all probability how Lance Armstrong felt when he frolicked with me:

He was so naive.